You appear to be offended by stores not abiding by the trappings of xmas, is it necessary to wish people happy xmas, do you need to let everyone know that you are a christian, is it a religious necessity to chop down a tree and dress it in tinsel, is there a tenet of your faith that requires you cover you house in coloured lights, to have a plastic santa and reindeer on your lawn with a big sign saying "Santa Please Stop Here", or are these all trappings of commercialism, go celebrate xmas, but don't believe you have the right to push it into others faces. If you have no idea what religion the person is why do you need to say "merry xmas", do muslims constantly wish you a "happy eid"?

 

On the contrary ... decorations at the time of the winter solstice date back at least seven thousand years.

 

You haven't been following this conversation so you really don't understand what I've been saying. Therefore your comments don't make any sense to me. Maybe Kimico will find your comments relevant.

In any case, I'm done here.

have a happy eid

HD

 

Why do people find it necessary to wish others "Merry Xmas" in November anyway? Will they be starting with "Happy New Year" on the first of December? Let's keep the greetings for the correct time of year.

 

I do not know that Christian religiosity is making new inroads (or regaining lost ground) in American society, but Christian symbology is certainly returning, and frankly I am relieved by the trend.

To repeat the example I posted somewhere above, recently I bought a pound of whole bean Christmas Blend at Starbucks. Last year, Starbucks had a Holiday blend, or a Winter blend, or some such thing. Christmas is back in retail parlance, and that is a good thing. The euphemisms are comical and tedious. Yuletide Tree! Fuck. I still can't get over that one.

As to whether the Christian religions are gaining ground, I do not think so. Christianity is becoming more gentrified in rural areas, and in urban areas is increasingly regarded as hackneyed and quaint, owing to increasing secularization.

No, I do not have sources for the above. It is just opinion, based on my travels. I could be wrong. I simply think that America, on the whole, is becoming more secularized.

The one reason for doubts as to that opinion would be the influx of illegal immigration from Latin America. The illegals are bringing Catholicism back. I happen to think this is a good thing. Roman Catholicism in America has been blunted by a perverse sort of situational ethics for the past few decades, in which American Roman Catholics have come to dismiss the quaint ravings of the Popes and have taken it upon themselves to believe whatever they damn well please. Latin Americans ascribe to a more classical, centralized Roman Catholicism, in which the Papacy truly is considered a central, irreproachable moral authority.

I hate the corporate jargon phrase, "many moving parts," but I suppose in this respect it fits. Entire books could be written about the changing landscape of faith in America, and I am certainly not an authority.

Muslim inroads in America. Maybe. Best of luck to them. I do not think Sharia law has much of a chance here, given the rising tide of secularism and the entrenched base of Christianity (fragmented though it is into thousands of major branches and minor sects).

Yet as far as the Muslim evangelicalism is concerned, I can't for the life of me comprehend the female apologists on these shores. Female dissidents in Egypt are being subjected to "virginity tests" by interrogators. Females in much of the Muslim world are treated as chattel. Ritual clitoridectomy is routinely practiced on adolescent girls. How any western woman could waste breath on apologizing for Muslim evangelicalism, much less could support it, aid it, or abet it, is beyond my ability to comprehend.

On this thread there are several attempts to establish equivalence between Christian and Muslim evangelicalism. As an atheist, I have no particular gripe against Muslims. In my view, all forms of fundamentalist faith are dangerous.

But by the same token, it is crucial to understand that Islam is a young religion. Its tenets and dogma are consequently more likely to be taken literally by its adherents.

Many Roman Catholics chuckle at the notion that consecrated wine is the literal blood of Christ. Indeed, our "magical incantation term," hocus pocus, derives from the Latin for the transubstantiation ritual, and was used as a sarcastic form of rebuke back in the Middle Ages. Sure, Christianity committed the Crusades, and sure, people were burned for heresy, and sure, the Spanish Inquisition was a horrible blot on its history. But those events are history. Christianity has been tamed and tempered over the centuries, to the point now where if a god-fearing Catholic man chooses to wear a condom, or if a woman chooses to take a birth control prescription, they have no problem with ignoring the proclamations of the Papacy and going about their merry way. Sheesh, most Catholics do not even bother with confession anymore- not unless they are about to marry, about to divorce, or about to die.

It is not the same for the Muslim faiths. Islam has not been tempered by as many centuries. The majority of the teachings in the Quran are still taken literally by tens of millions of Muslims. Even the nasty bits. Heck, in some parts of the Muslim world, it is still blasphemous- a capital offense- to believe in vacuum! (Because the absence of anything in a vacuum suggests the absence of God.) Thus, in many parts of the Muslim world, it can be truly risky (and treacherous) to attain more than a grade school comprehension of physics. There is a reason why Middle Eastern states are dependent upon the West for construction of oil refineries. Vacuum is the tip of that iceberg. (Try pumping crude oil without one.)

Will the Muslim faith mature, temper, and soften with the centuries, as Christianity and Judaism did?

Sure. If the world lasts that long.

In the meantime, we should be cautious about our well-meaning yet perilous attempts to establish equivalence between the belief systems of the three major faiths.

 

It is "Christmas Tree" that is the euphemism. People have been dragging bits of tree into their homes and lighting them to celebrate Yule, since five thousand years before Christianity even existed.

When the Christian church realised it that royally sucked at exterminating other religions, it just decided to hijack the names of their festivals; celebrating Jesus' birthday at the winter solstice instead of when it actually happened, so that they could call it Christmas and obliterate the correct name, and so on.

 

.
I enjoyed reading your post. It's been well written as well as thought provoking.

 

That was my point. I was showing how retarded his post was. Sometimes the stupid in these threads is amazing :wall:

 

*not_secure_link*28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvb4q76pQt1qjnhqgo1_400.jpg
​

 

I know all of that. We know all of that. Personally? I think we should sweep the past three thousand years aside and adopt the culture and traditions of the Hittites. :excited:

Honestly, I think you've crossed the line, and at this point my huge ego is suggesting to me that you might be flirting.

 

You know Clarise, you should consider becoming a writer. I think you have potential.... really.

HD

 

In Moslem countries rape victims are often punished more severely than rapists. Several years ago I read of a rape victim in Saudi Arabia who was sentenced to receive 200 lashes. Her offense was to be where rape was possible - that is to say in public without the presence of a male relative.

Speaking of male relatives, I also read of a Palestinian woman who became pregnant as a result of being raped. Because she had shamed her family her brother publicly murdered her while a raving mob of Palestinians roared their approval.

Guess who raped her? You got it.

Many American blacks convert to Islam because they associate Christianity with European slavery. The Arab slave trade began centuries before the European slave trade. It continued for decades later until it was smashed by European military action.

The Arabs castrated male slaves. They were equal opportunity slavers. Many of their slaves were Europeans, some were Americans. Nevertheless, most were African Negroes. In addition to being castrated Negro males had their penises cut off. Many died as a result.

 

I recall having read about the rape victim.

People here think of a "whipping" as a fetish game between lovers on red satin sheets.

In the Middle East, "lashes" are conducted with barbed martinets. Each "lash" removes several dozen chunks of flesh. Recipients of fifty "lashes" wish they were dead. Two hundred "lashes" is a death sentence.

Yet on this thread we have to read about asswipes in a nit over being subjected to the indignity of Christmas Trees.

America. What a country.

 

Now, now, the country is fine.
Lakes, forests, rivers and streams along with a whole bunch of little furry creatures.
It's the people that's become the problem.
Especially those damned right wing Tea Baggers. :excited::excited::excited:

 

And I think we need to go one step further no matter what the "Church" had to do to trick or intimidate people into being "Christians" many of those same "Christians" have never had a problem making money off it and the modern "Christmas" is a perfect example of that.

We've got an entire industry created to supply nothing but "Christmas Trees." We've got "black Friday" where people injure each other in shopping frenzies the day after Thanksgiving. And even our own government and President help promote it.

And today its supposed to be some other day just for internet Christmas Sales.

It looks more like to me that if "true Christians" took a look around they would join the Muslims in protesting the commercial rip-off "Christmas" has become if nothing else.

This entire discussion actually reminds me of what Bob Dylan said:

Disillusioned words like bullets bark
As human gods aim for their mark
Made everything from toy guns that spark
To flesh-colored christs that glow in the dark
It's easy to see without looking too far
That not much
Is really sacred.

 

I like what Tom Lehrer had to say on the subject...

 

So to I like what Lehrer has to say about it.

But our rabid racists and Islamiphobes can relax now. Fox News has single handedly won the war on Christmas.

In Stunning Turnaround, Fox Declares Itself "Winning The War On Christmas"

*not_secure_link*mediamatters.org/blog/201111280002

 

Just so we all know what we are talking about.

Islamiphobes: People who are justifiably afraid that Totalitarian Islamic rule may someday take over the world if we allow Islamic apologist to talk us into letting it into our society.

Islamic Totalitarianism is a governing system where the leaders invoke a divine right to rule and recognizes no limits to their power and authority. They strive to regulate every aspect of public, private and religious life. Islamic Totalitarian regimes get in power and stay in power through the use of widespread terror.

Islamic apologist: Irrational dolts that defend Islam and try to talk us into allowing it to creep into our society by invoking "Political Correctness" and advocating tolerance for the totalitarian Islamic religion.


HD

 

Nope. Anytime anyone has to resort to making up lies I've already proven them wrong and most likely a brainwashed parrot spouting propaganda snippets.

Noun1.Islamophobia - prejudice against Muslims; "Muslim intellectuals are afraid of growing Islamophobia in the West"

*not_secure_link*www.thefreedictionary.com/Islamophobe

 

What is the war over Christmas?
What is it about and who started it?

The Christian celebration of Christmas is a religious homage to the birth of Jesus of Nazareth, who Christian’s believe is the promised messiah, sent by God to bring peace and salvation to the world. The word Christmas means Christ is born, and Christians regard this holiday (Holy Day) as a time of great joy to be celebrated with family and loved ones. The gift giving aspect is an emulation of the epiphany, when the “three wise man” went out to look for the baby Jesus and brought him gifts.

The secular celebration of Christmas is a corruption and exploitation of the religious celebration. Because the early church did not know exactly when Jesus was born, they chose a date when people were already celebrating the coming of the light. This was the Winter Solstice which marked the day on which the earth comes out of a time of expanding darkness into a time of expanding light.

The Winter Solstice was already a time of excessive celebration and merchants were happy to add the new Christian holiday as another reason to celebrate. As Christianity grew, the celebration of the birth of Christ grew and merchants learned to exploit Christmas for their ends. Soon Christmas became the biggest holiday on the secular calendar and the busiest day of the year for merchants.

What started the war. Merchants are always looking for ways to expand their business and make more money so they thought that if they could separate the celebration of Christmas from the Christian belief in Christ, that would allow them to expand the celebration to a World Wide Market. However, they have run into some opposition. Christian do not intend to allow the merchants to highjack their holiday (Holy Day) and they are threatening to pull their support from merchants that want to take Christ out of Christmas. That would be very bad for merchants because as of now, Christians are the chief supporters of the Christmas celebration and if Christians pulled out of the secular celebration… merchants would loose a lot of money.


HD